| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
msmobiles.com_robot
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 16777215
|
 Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: IMPORTANT : Visto sues Microsoft, rumors about reason of delay of the push e-mail confirmed !!! |
 |
|
We have been receiving in past feedback and rumors, that push e-mail update for Windows Mobile 5.0 devices is being delayed because Microsoft violates Visto patents. We simply couldn't believe these rumors and that...
Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/4684.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
BeyondtheTech
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Edison, NJ
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First Blackberry, now Microsoft.
When will the end user ever get a break?! 
_________________
Bubble Buster Advanced
My TECHIE GARAGE SALE going on! Check it out here... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BeyondtheTech wrote: | First Blackberry, now Microsoft.
When will the end user ever get a break?! |
Visto and NTP are uniting to defeat both Blackberry and (by the way!) Microsoft.
This is insane that in USA everything can be patented - even totally generic techniques. If it goes further then somebody will patent "technique how to pick a nose" and policement will be persecuting everybody on the street. This is not funny.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 282
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Funny how only a week ago you where claiming that NTP sueing RIM was a benefit for Microsoft. Now Visto are sueing Microsoft for similiar patent violations its somehow wrong.
NTP and Visto have also formed a partnership with Visto allowed to use NTP's patents for the life of those patents. Only 10 of Vistos 25 patents have been questioned under review by the patent office, these 10 are again under review and are likely to be used in vistos case against seven for similar patent violations. Maybe this is why RIM's 450 million dollar deal with NTP failed and I have heard rumours that NTP are now looking for 1 billion. Now with this partnership with Visto is it even in their interest to make a deal with RIM?
http://www.visto.com/news/releases/05_12_14_license.html
Companies have every right to protect their own intellectual property, Visto have been pioneering this technology for over 10 years and have every right to stop microsoft from profiting from their work without proper payment. Rememeber its Microsoft who where trying to patent spam filters, web links in TV and XML serialization and deserialization. At least Visto and NTP actually designed their patents.
“Innovative companies have been pummeled out of existence or into minor players after Microsoft decided to enter their markets,” Bogosian added. “Netscape and RealNetworks are among the best known examples. Courts around the world have ruled time after time against Microsoft, saying that it has acted either inappropriately or in violation of the law, especially concerning how they have treated competing companies. We will not let that happen to Visto.”
http://www.visto.com/news/releases/05_12_15_microsoft.html |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
quagmire
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Amen to that. The patent system is a great tool for protecting your intellectual property and will continue to be. MS has not hesitated to use the system to its full advantage in the past to take advantage of the little guy and I'm hopeful they get a little of their own medicine.
It is unfortunate we live in such a lititgious society - makes me want to get out of the security biz and go to law school. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| kieranEire wrote: |
Companies have every right to protect their own intellectual property, Visto have been pioneering this technology for over 10 years and have every right to stop microsoft from profiting from their work without proper payment. Rememeber its Microsoft who where trying to patent spam filters, web links in TV and XML serialization and deserialization. At least Visto and NTP actually designed their patents.
|
Lies! Those "patents" from Visto and NTP are generalizations. Microsoft designed their Direct Push on their own. Microsoft has not used any "inventions" or "solutions" designed by Visto, who are just scumbags, who patented generic thing and now they try to profit without actually doing the technical design of Microsoft's Direct Push. This is plain wrong on many levels and it is pity that judicial system in USA allows to patent such generalizations.
I repeat: Visto are parasites and one of those evil companies that are hindering development of mankind. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
quagmire
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Posts: 17
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| They're still patents!! Do you even live in the United States? You're obviously uninformed about how our patent system works and why it was designed in the first place. It was designed specifically for this purpose - to protect the intellectual property created by the little guy's blood, sweat and tears from being stolen by someone else. I don't care what the idea is, how complex it is or anything else - it's still an invention. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ghl
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 97
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| quagmire wrote: | Amen to that. The patent system is a great tool for protecting your intellectual property and will continue to be. MS has not hesitated to use the system to its full advantage in the past to take advantage of the little guy and I'm hopeful they get a little of their own medicine.
It is unfortunate we live in such a lititgious society - makes me want to get out of the security biz and go to law school. |
I fully agree with you !
It is legitimate to protect "intellectual property". It only depends on how this term is defined !
Is it intellectual property if you succeed to patent that something can be sent as push mail ? (There are numerous other examples as well, I have no affiliation or personal objection against Visto, it only stands as an example for this kind of issue !)
Let's hope that no software company would ever succeed in patenting bit rotation or multiplying two numerics. Could be a bit of an issue for all other software companies in the first case and school children in the second case.
This is also not very funny...
Anyone still thinks the main purpose today of patents is purely idealistic in order to "secure intellectual property" ?
Procedures, ideas, even simple things are patented today with the aim to prevent competition. Competition is, however, a main column of a "free" trade and free economy.
I think those who often so loudly claim for a free economy simply do not want to have restrictions against themselves, while trying everything to become oligopolists or - better for them - monopolists.
Assuming a gifted programmer would create a cute algorithm, which would then *really* be his intellectual property.
Assuming further a large software company would steal it and integrate it in one of its software.
Anyone thinks this programmer would try to spend big sums of money and sueing that software giant, defended by an armada of lawyers ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| quagmire wrote: | | It was designed specifically for this purpose - to protect the intellectual property created by the little guy's blood, sweat and tears from being stolen by someone else. I don't care what the idea is, how complex it is or anything else - it's still an invention. |
Visto patented just general concept, vague idea and not any solution.
Microsoft not violated anything here - Microsoft just extended their existing synchronization solution.
If such scumbags like Visto will be allowed to prevail in this case, then it means that patent system of USA was designed for lawyers and not for people. I agree that if somebody will patent solution to some problem, then he can collect license fees from users of the patent. However if somebody manages to patent just vague concept, this is simply evil and bad for everybody. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adrusa
Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 10
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I quite agree that the patent system in the US is broken and need to be fixed. However, I found it difficult to understand how you can be so vehement about how M$ designed their push mail technology since you dont work at M$ or even get invited to their important functions or briefings. I smell rancid opportunism in your rather unrestrained support for M$ and condemnation of VISTO.
Though, I like your kind of journalism, provides some comic relief for me at the end of a hard day's work. Keep up the good work. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adrusa wrote: |
since you dont work at M$ or even get invited to their important functions or briefings. I smell rancid opportunism in your rather unrestrained support for M$ and condemnation of VISTO.
. |
there are other ways of obtaining information than just attending NDA-guarded meetings.
this is not opportunism because similar (albeit not the same) situation was with my comments on Sendo case - long time ago. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lmychajluk
Joined: 18 Jan 2005
Posts: 9
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Maybe MS will trade them for their patent on 'Pause' |
|
|
| lmychajluk wrote: | | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/12/15/microsoft_tv_pause_patent/ |
2 wrongs doesn't make Visto's action good.
Please note that Visto attacks also Blackberry, not just Microsoft, so your comparison is invalid anyway. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 282
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Lies! Those "patents" from Visto and NTP are generalizations. |
Thats not for you to decide but the patents office. Seven who are also in court over patent infringments have failed to to convince the Patents office of that. If you read the actual patents they are quite specific.
The patent under question with Seven
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,085,192.WKU.&OS=PN/6,085,192&RS=PN/6,085,192
| Quote: | | Microsoft designed their Direct Push on their own |
How would you know that have you actually worked on the solution. If this was the case how come the solution infringes on three of Vistos patents.
| Quote: | | who patented generic thing and now they try to profit without actually doing the technical design of Microsoft's Direct Push |
| Quote: | | Visto patented just general concept, vague idea and not any solution. |
The point is they have done the technical design and implemented it, there product is called ConstantSync I believe. The Activesync protocal may violate three patents in regards to ConstantSync
The patents under question with Microsoft
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,085,192.WKU.&OS=PN/6,085,192&RS=PN/6,085,192
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,708,221.WKU.&OS=PN/6,708,221&RS=PN/6,708,221
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=/netahtml/srchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=6,151,606.WKU.&OS=PN/6,151,606&RS=PN/6,151,606
| Quote: | | Microsoft not violated anything here - Microsoft just extended their existing synchronization solution. |
Really then how come Microsofts solutions is nothing like the original solution and violates intellectual property owned by Vista. Are you trying to tell me that engineers at Microsoft suddenly came up with designs almost identical to Vistos with very little variation. The links of the patents are posted here see how specific they are, Microsoft are open to challenge if this patents are too open if they wish.
| Quote: | | However if somebody manages to patent just vague concept, this is simply evil and bad for everybody. |
Really, I wonder is it as evil as using other peoples innovations to drive them out of the market place. There are many examples of Microsoft acting illegally in regards to intellectual property and they are quite willing to use the patent system themselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 282
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Please note that Visto attacks also Blackberry, not just Microsoft, so your comparison is invalid anyway. |
Visto do not attack blackberry, NTP are in a legal battle with RIM over the blackberry solution. However it does look like NTPs patents which are being contested with RIM are too open. However the court will not wait for the patent office to make that ruling. Also note RIM where willing to pay NTP 450 million dollars for use of their intellectual property.
Vistos patents have already been tested by the patent office in the Seven case and are regarded as valid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
