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msmobiles.com_robot
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
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 Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Weekly audio: Windows Mobile related podcasts that have been published last week |
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In podcasts, i.e. in audio MP3 files accessible also through RSS feeds, you can find information that is not available in textual form on web sites. It is so not just because these podcasts convey intonation and...
Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/7387.html |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Edward mentioned that the iPhone didn't work with a stylus and conjectured it had to do with the size of the stylus.
It's not the size of the stylus, but the material from which it is made. The iPhone uses capacitive touch (the object touching the screen conducts some amount of electricity) where as most windows mobile phones use resistive technology. See the Wikipedia article on touch screen technology article for more details.
I like Edwards repeated declaration on the pixel resolution of these phones, but what about the video performance of these phones? |
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EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
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| Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| alcedes wrote: |
I like Edwards repeated declaration on the pixel resolution of these phones, but what about the video performance of these phones? |
for most applications video performance of VGA and W-VGA phones powered by Windows Mobile is sufficient and some of them (like old O2 phone with VGA) have hardware acceleration. Next however HTC Touch Diamond and Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 also will have hardware acceleration of graphics ... so situation will be improving. |
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kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 282
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Edward mentioned that the iPhone didn't work with a stylus and conjectured it had to do with the size of the stylus.
It's not the size of the stylus, but the material from which it is made. |
First and foremost Edward is wrong, you can get a stylus for the iphone. Its just not syplied with one.
http://www.iphonic.tv/2007/12/fingers_too_podgy_for_the_ipho.html
Though the real point is the iphone does not require one.
| Quote: | | or most applications video performance of VGA and W-VGA phones powered by Windows Mobile is sufficient and some of them (like old O2 phone with VGA) have hardware acceleration. Next however HTC Touch Diamond and Sony Ericsson Xperia X1 also will have hardware acceleration of graphics ... so situation will be improving. |
Certainly not HTC ones. Every one has seen the lag on the HTC diamond videos. Everyone knows about the performance issues on Kaiser and "the situation is improving" clearly shows the situation is not as good as it should be.
Try and take a Kaiser, Diamond or Advantage out into direct sunlight and the screen is unreadable. Anti glare screen protecters are of little help and dull the screen. Using only resolution to determine the quality of a screen smacks of desperation to somehow claim superiority over the iphone. Lets try and get some really honest comparisons with the iphone. Because the screen is certainly not one of HTCs pluses over iphone, you just have to use a couple of these devices for a few days to see the difference. |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, that's thick! Now I am wondering what type of resolution the touch sensor in the iPhone has.
| kieranEire wrote: |
Certainly not HTC ones. Every one has seen the lag on the HTC diamond videos. Everyone knows about the performance issues on Kaiser and "the situation is improving" clearly shows the situation is not as good as it should be.
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Are you speaking of the delay between some one making a gesture and the screen transition occurring on the diamond? While this is a part of the overall user experience I don't think that's an indeication of video performance. Overall I think what you were observing would be termed in general as response time which would include all the time from when a user generates an input to when the device begins to provide an indication that it's received the input.
Whether that delay is intentional or not is unknown to me. Some user interfaces intentionally have a delay from receiving a user input to processing it so that the user has a chance to cancel or append to their input. A simple example is the delay from when some one mouses over an item in their start menu on windows to when the item expands. This delay is adjustable (via registry setting) but is desired since it prevents the accidental expansion of an item when a user momentarily mouses over it. Another example of an interface with intentional delays is the transcriber handwriting interface that comes with many Windows Mobile Professional devices.
A better formal metrics for video performance would be measurements of how many drawing operations of certain types can be done in a time frame, such as rendering lines, triangles, bitblting, or even plaoying video (though each one of these would measure a different aspect of the video performance). An example of an informal method is trying to see whether or not an interface is rendered slow enough for you to notice some of the individual screen components being rendered under low CPU load (assuming no double buffering is used). |
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kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 282
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Wow, that's thick! Now I am wondering what type of resolution the touch sensor in the iPhone has. |
Yeah I was reading a little more about it. It claims to be a finger simulator rather than just a stylus. Made me laugh that claim. Though the truth is this is a gimmick as the iphone does not require a stylus, no tiny targets on screen.
| Quote: | | Are you speaking of the delay between some one making a gesture and the screen transition occurring on the diamond? While this is a part of the overall user experience I don't think that's an indeication of video performance. Overall I think what you were observing would be termed in general as response time which would include all the time from when a user generates an input to when the device begins to provide an indication that it's received the input. |
Its hard to say why this is happening as we don't have the code. Its more likely a result of a mix of things, poor software design (it looks like HTC try to determine te gesture after its made, though notice this is not the case on the list boxs with flick scrolling. The iphone tries to determing the gesture as its being made. Note the iphone has to detect two gestures at once). Though it is at least partically down to drivers. The screen rotation lag is the most obvious example of this,
| Quote: | | Whether that delay is intentional or not is unknown to me. Some user interfaces intentionally have a delay from receiving a user input to processing it so that the user has a chance to cancel or append to their input. A simple example is the delay from when some one mouses over an item in their start menu on windows to when the item expands. This delay is adjustable (via registry setting) but is desired since it prevents the accidental expansion of an item when a user momentarily mouses over it. Another example of an interface with intentional delays is the transcriber handwriting interface that comes with many Windows Mobile Professional devices. |
There is no reason for a delay in a gesture or touch screen interface. There is no excuse for a wait cursor on a mobile phone unless its loading third party software. A delay on a touch screen results in people trying the gesture or touch again and again giving the perception of lag. Clearly the Kaiser suffers from this, the petition shows that many people feel the user interface did not meet their expectations.
| Quote: | | A better formal metrics for video performance would be measurements of how many drawing operations of certain types can be done in a time frame, such as rendering lines, triangles, bitblting, or even plaoying video (though each one of these would measure a different aspect of the video performance). An example of an informal method is trying to see whether or not an interface is rendered slow enough for you to notice some of the individual screen components being rendered under low CPU load (assuming no double buffering is used). |
Metrics like you suggest tend to test the video acceleration hardware and software, not the screen.
Again the problem with this is statistics, they do not reflect the over all quality of a display. Clearly software is a factor, one application displaying an image may be better than another. Clarity,some screens even at lower resolution due to the materials used in the actual screen may seem clearer. How do lighting conditions for example direct sunlight affect the quality. What good is a top of the range VGA screen with high performance video acceleration on a mobile device if I live in the south of Spain and the screen is unreadable in direct sunlight. |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| kieranEire wrote: |
Metrics like you suggest tend to test the video acceleration hardware and software, not the screen.
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My original question and primary concern is in the phones video performance, not the application level software or the screen quality. (Performance = Work accomplished in some amount of time, whereas some of the other attributes you mention such as screen clarity are better encompassed by "quality" which could be inclusive of performance). I know that I can't trust the capabilities of the graphics hardware alone since it is now known and quite visible that the OEM may not take full advantage of the hardware's capability.
Since I've never had any problems with screen clarity on phones and other devices that I have owned and have used my concern for these attributes is de-emphesized.
I made a foolish attempt at making a new interface on my current phone using Microsoft's DirectX API. Given that my current phone is only a 205 MHz unit with no video accelerator worth speaking of it didn't take much to inundate the phone's graphics display system. My current phone has no hardware supported implementation for rendering textured primitives. I had no problem getting my phone to recognize my gestures but getting the display to keep up was difficult.
| kieranEire wrote: |
Again the problem with this is statistics, they do not reflect the over all quality of a display. Clearly software is a factor, one application displaying an image may be better than another. Clarity,some screens even at lower resolution due to the materials used in the actual screen may seem clearer. How do lighting conditions for example direct sunlight affect the quality. What good is a top of the range VGA screen with high performance video acceleration on a mobile device if I live in the south of Spain and the screen is unreadable in direct sunlight. |
I think that you are pointing out that quality is a multidimensional attribute. The best combination of these attributes is dependent on the intended user of the device (after all, one device does not fit all users' needs). For my personal needs since I don't live south of Spain and since I work from home I'm not concerned with the ability to see the phone in direct sunlight  . My primary concerns here are the devices' resolutions and video performance (more specifically it's ability to render textured polygons).
-Al |
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