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dicussions about Microsoft Smartphone and Pocket PC phone
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msmobiles.com_robot
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 16777215
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 Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: iPhone cannot do it, but Windows Mobile can: 3G video calling |
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If you need this feature, then we recommend purchase of a Windows Mobile phone:
Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/7422.html |
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indiekiduk
Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 198
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is widely known that hardly anyone even wants to make video calls.
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WiFiFoFum Pocket PC Wardriving
www.Aspecto-Software.com |
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EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2627
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| indiekiduk wrote: | | I think it is widely known that hardly anyone even wants to make video calls. |
but customers should have CHOICE and with iPhone they have no choice: they cannot use video calls, even in urgent situations. |
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netboy
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 349
Location: Bayarea, CA USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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i said it many times, iphone is nothing but a toy!
if u want something that is more then just a toy, get Windows Mobiles!
can iphone bluetooth tether to notebook/umpc?
can iphone runs gps/navigation programs?
can iphone do remote desktop?
can you slingmedia on iphone?
does iphone have many internet brower to choose from? ie. opera mobile, netfront 3.5, and skyfire.
there are thousands of 3rd party program for windows mobiles, how many does iphone have? |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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This brings back the dilemma of the first person with the phone; who do you call.
AT&T is the only company here in the US that offers video calling, but it seems to require a special AT&T app. I don't know that you can call any one outside the AT&T network from reading the description of the service. And it is way to expensive too.
I can see purposes for using the service, not so much to display ones self but one's environment or some near by artifact.
The third party software for the windows mobile phones wouldn't matter much to my contacts. For starters they would not even "discover" these third party apps without some one telling them. It is a little harder to miss on the iPhone.
Last edited by alcedes on Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Stoic33
Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 96
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| EJR wrote: | | iPhone cannot do it, but Windows Mobile can: 3G video calling. |
Also your title is misleading Windows Mobile is an operating system not a device!! so should read:
| Quote: | | iPhone cannot do it, but some Windows Mobile Devices can: 3G video calling. |
and to be more correct:
| Quote: | | iPhone cannot do it, but some of the bulkier Windows Mobile Devices can: 3G video calling. |
and just to drive the point:
| Quote: | | iPhone cannot do it, but some of the bulkier Windows Mobile PPC devices and fewer Smartphone devices can: 3G video calling, but may or may not have GPS as well or decent specs. |
Slow News Day? Or does the new iPhone make you defensive?
I’m mainly in the Windows Mobile camp, but this headline is just not a good reason to pick WinMo over the iPhone.. From a usability point of view its long been known that video-as-presence (e.g. talking heads) is useless compared to video-as-data (e.g. the environment or exchanging real time maps/data) which is far more useful, except for the emotional connection that most like to avoid.
Is video calling useful today: Nope, I have plenty of HSDPA equipped WinMo devices with front/back mounted cameras, but WinMo is so rubbish as a consumer platform that few others have it and even worse for those that do, its almost impossible to maintain a consistent 3G connection to make it worthwhile.
Nb. On top of that: Video-calling is a very badly implemented interaction, currently you can either voice call or video call, theirs no way to interchange between them on the fly i.e. start out as a voice call then switch to video as and when is needed.. currently you have to disconnect and call again which is just wasteful.. On one hand I think Apple made the right move not to support video-calling tell the networks evolve and possible tell they figure out how to make the interaction seamless between voice and video.. on the other hand Apple could just be after more money in adding it to the next release.. either way video-calling today is by no means a selling feature but more of a gimmick. |
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Menneisyys
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| indiekiduk wrote: | | I think it is widely known that hardly anyone even wants to make video calls. |
lf the front cameras' AP was open, WM would be really cool, IP video calling wise. too bad currently no third-party app is able to use front cameras (Ms Portrait etc.) This is only available on Symbian. I'm pushing Microsoft very hard to implement this; that is, force OEM's to make front cameras accessible from third-party software. |
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chrisoldroyd
Joined: 18 May 2008
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Its the most overated UMTS technology, nobody wants to use it and nobody cares about it and if thats all you can come up with against the iPhone then thats not good. I have an iPhone and love it, but heres where it fails:-
No A2DP
No Forwarding Text Messages
No MMS Messages
No Copy Paste
Poor camera
No tethering
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Chris
www.mobiletechaddicts.com |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Stoic33 wrote: | | iPhone cannot do it, but some of the bulkier Windows Mobile PPC devices and fewer Smartphone devices can: 3G video calling, but may or may not have GPS as well or decent specs. |
Wow, very strict semantics there. Excellent for technical comparisons.
| Stoic33 wrote: | | Slow News Day? Or does the new iPhone make you defensive? |
I don't know whether or not it's defensive, but it is a common/normal method of rating products. Ever see the page that Apple once had that showed why the PowerPC processors were better than Intel processors? In such comparisons the conclusion is the antecedant of the supporting information, the conclusion here being the implicit statement "Windows Mobile is better."
| Stoic33 wrote: | | From a usability point of view its long been known that video-as-presence (e.g. talking heads) is useless compared to video-as-data (e.g. the environment or exchanging real time maps/data) which is far more useful. |
Sounds like a resonable assertion. But video capable phone are not excluded from using video as data, especially if you have a headset and can freely move the phone around without it disrupting your ability to speak. AT&T's marketting of video calling is centered around sharing visuals of what is going on around the caller ("Let other's see what you see","Friends can experience...right along with you", "Share your world") and not simply sharing video of the caller him/her self. Think of it as live MMS. Currently only the Samsung Blackjack II is the only AT&T WiMo video share capable phone available in the US. The other phones use non-windows OSes.
| Stoic33 wrote: | | its almost impossible to maintain a consistent 3G connection to make it worthwhile. |
That statement is transitive since it has dependencies on your location (which is subject to change) the 3G coverage in the areas you frequent (also subject to change). 3G coverage is improving. I signed up for an AT&T data card when 3G was only available in a few cities (to which I don't travel) and can say that I've experienced the improvement in the service. I now frequently use 3G to stream video to my computer in my hotel rooms and airports in Atlanta, Baltimore, Phoenix, Boston and Somerset. It sounds that the story is different in your geography but perhaps it will improve with time.
| Stoic33 wrote: | | Nb. On top of that: Video-calling is a very badly implemented interaction, currently you can either voice call or video call, theirs no way to interchange between them on the fly i.e. start out as a voice call then switch to video as and when is needed.. |
I live in the USA, and I don't know how it is in the rest of the world but here in the USA that is not true. One *can* start off with a voice cal and then change to a video call. See page 48 of the Samsung Black Jack II Instruction Manual. But as mentioned before AT&T is the only provider of video calling of which I know, so I don't know/think their implementation conforms to the same specification as what ever is available in other parts of the world.
| Stoic33 wrote: | | On one hand I think Apple made the right move not to support video-calling tell the networks evolve and possible tell they figure out how to make the interaction seamless between voice and video.. |
Do all of Apple's selected carriers all support video calling? If not I could see adding the feature as potentially negative if it would not be supported in all markets. If I had a front facing camera on my phone that did nothing then I would feel a little cheated. But on the other hand, who knows. S. Jobs may have one more thing to announce at launch date.
| Stoic33 wrote: | | either way video-calling today is by no means a selling feature but more of a gimmick. |
Agreed, but if I had it and if my associates had it I would use it. For now if I want to share something I just take a picture and e-mail it from the phone (MMS is way to expensive). |
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BrianC
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 183
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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There are many things missing in iPhone. What it has though is the brand that is well recognised and well loved, especially among the Apple lovers. Same cannot be said among the many WM smartphone companies out there.
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Proud owner of HTC Touch Diamond and i-mate JASJAM. |
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benjitek
Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:51 am Post subject: |
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+1 for the 'so-what' camp  For many, the iPhone is one slick little device. You can pretty much count on it becoming a iPhone feature at some point: when they do it, they'll do it well. The ramped-up competition between MS and Apple in this arena is great -- users of both WM and iPhone devices will benefit as the market continues to develop  |
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virain
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Menneisyys wrote: | | indiekiduk wrote: | | I think it is widely known that hardly anyone even wants to make video calls. |
lf the front cameras' AP was open, WM would be really cool, IP video calling wise. too bad currently no third-party app is able to use front cameras (Ms Portrait etc.) This is only available on Symbian. I'm pushing Microsoft very hard to implement this; that is, force OEM's to make front cameras accessible from third-party software. |
I second this. But... not being very technical, I don't understand, why is it we have seen so much effort from hackers/ developers to jailbreak iPhone and nobody does anything to jailbreak front camera on WM devices? Eve3n from financial point of view it is more sound. How many WM users would pay for VOIP app, like Skype, where you can make video call. Apple fanboys do buy IM+ for iPhone after all, and it doesn't have video call capabilities. |
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alcedes
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
Posts: 273
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: If it's not locked you can't jailbreak it. |
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| virain wrote: |
I second this. But... not being very technical, I don't understand, why is it we have seen so much effort from hackers/ developers to jailbreak iPhone and nobody does anything to jailbreak front camera on WM devices? |
The front-facing camera is not locked or restricted in any way thus the concept of jailbreaking is not applicable. The inaccessibility to developers here is that there's no standard method of interacting with this camera from code (there is no standard API). If a hacker were to reverse engineer one phone and figure out how to access it's front-facing camera then that information is not necessarily applicable to some other windows mobile phone with a front facing camera. It may not even be applicable to the same phone after a firmware update.
This is very much a classical dilemma. A new class of hardware is created, manufacturers each come up with their own diverse methods for accessing and interacting with the device (both from a hardware and software perspective) and then some entity or group finally steps up and decideds to standardize the device interfaces. OpenGL, DirectX, PictBridge, and USB are all solutions to this problem for specific compatibility domains. For the front facing camera Microsoft has for the time being chosen to stay uninvolved. I personally feel the manufacturers are not going to agree upon a common API for the front camera until Microsoft decides to be involved. |
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virain
Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 124
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: If it's not locked you can't jailbreak it. |
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| alcedes wrote: | | virain wrote: |
I second this. But... not being very technical, I don't understand, why is it we have seen so much effort from hackers/ developers to jailbreak iPhone and nobody does anything to jailbreak front camera on WM devices? |
The front-facing camera is not locked or restricted in any way thus the concept of jailbreaking is not applicable. The inaccessibility to developers here is that there's no standard method of interacting with this camera from code (there is no standard API). If a hacker were to reverse engineer one phone and figure out how to access it's front-facing camera then that information is not necessarily applicable to some other windows mobile phone with a front facing camera. It may not even be applicable to the same phone after a firmware update.
This is very much a classical dilemma. A new class of hardware is created, manufacturers each come up with their own diverse methods for accessing and interacting with the device (both from a hardware and software perspective) and then some entity or group finally steps up and decideds to standardize the device interfaces. OpenGL, DirectX, PictBridge, and USB are all solutions to this problem for specific compatibility domains. For the front facing camera Microsoft has for the time being chosen to stay uninvolved. I personally feel the manufacturers are not going to agree upon a common API for the front camera until Microsoft decides to be involved. |
And my uneducated guess is MS doesn't want to get involved so it won't upset its customers, I mean not the end user of WM devices, but OEMs and careers. |
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Menneisyys
Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| virain wrote: | | How many WM users would pay for VOIP app, like Skype, where you can make video call. Apple fanboys do buy IM+ for iPhone after all, and it doesn't have video call capabilities. |
IP-based (that is, free, if you have an unlimited data plan) video phoning capabilities would be just GREAT and a LOT of people would pay for them. Currently, it's only doable on Symbian (with TiVi) and on (the very few - currently, I only know of the HTC Universal) WM devices where you can turn the screen by 180 degrees so that you're faced both the back camera and the screen at the same time as can be seen in the following image (taken from my TiVi review):
Currently, as TiVi isn't MSN-compliant (at home, my wife uses MSN), I mostly use my HP TC1100 tablet for video calling, tethered to my Nokia N95, which acts as my webcam (the TC1100 doesn't have a built-in webcam). |
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