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msmobiles.com_robot
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 16777215
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 Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 3:57 pm Post subject: Windows Mobile Chassis |
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So it looks like Microsoft Pink is about Windows Mobile 7 that will unite Zune, Windows Mobile and Microsoft's cloud services and will include also minimal hardware requirements with multi-touch display as one of ...
Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/8252.html |
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j2inet
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Would be nice if those really are the specs. Unlike most current Windows Mobile devices a device of that spec has floating point and SIMD support. It would be worth porting XNA to a device of those specs. |
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EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2627
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| j2inet wrote: | | Would be nice if those really are the specs. . |
they are too good to be true, simply amazing.
but at least I can't believe that windows mobile 7 wouldn't support multi-touch |
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thelondonthing
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here; you can't seriously be suggesting that this is a set of minimum specifications for Windows Mobile 7.
A compass? How many people need a compass these days?
WVGA as a minimum - what about people who want smaller devices?
WiFi and accelerometer on all handsets? Don't forget that the Windows Mobile ecosystem is much, much larger than that of iPhone, and it extends far beyond consumer-oriented phones with lots of bells and whistles into specialist niche devices, non-cellular handsets, and an extremely wide range of form factors from big high-end touchscreens to small, slim entry-level T9-devices.
There's just no way that Microsoft would impose such extensive minimum hardware requirements for Windows Mobile 7, given that there's such an enormous chunk of the WM ecosystem that has no use or need for a lot of those features.
Notice also that these specs are referred to as WM7 "Chassis 1" specification; this in itself is a pretty unusual way to refer to minimum specs - it sounds too specific to be a general list referring to all WM7 handsets.
I'm willing to believe - as ZDnet do - that this might represent the spec requirements for Pink - but I think you're just plain wrong that this has anything to do with the minimum specs for WM7 as a whole. I actually believe that what we're looking at here is NOT a minimum specification list for Windows Mobile 7, but more likely a specification of one of the testing devices that they're using for its development.
Oh, and by the way, I'm not sure why you seem to be referring to "Windows Mobile Chassis" as a product - you say "Windows Mobile Chassis aka Windows Mobile 7"; the 'chassis' refers to the device itself (i.e. its hardware) on which the software is being developed and tested.
The products being referred to here are "Pink" (the Zune-integrated operating system) and "Windows Mobile 7" (the new mobile OS from MS); 'chassis' isn't a brand, it's just a word referring to the device described in the specs, and it's been capitalised as a proper noun for titular - rather than marketing - purposes. |
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kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Hardware specs mean nothing unless the core os is right. I just hope MS have started again instead of just trying to bolt something onto old code. |
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netboy
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 349
Location: Bayarea, CA USA
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:30 am Post subject: |
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finally Microsoft wake up!
making WVGA 800x480 or higher a requirement!
i have NO, NADA, ZERO, interests in iphone, palm pre, or Omnia cus of their JUNK resolutions! |
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j2inet
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| The one thing that stands out in these specs is OpenGL ES. It stands out because as of yet it's not a Microsoft supported API. It's considered a 3rd party solution. Microsoft generally pushes for developers to use DirectX as the software interface of choice for native development on its platforms. |
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EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2627
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| j2inet wrote: | | The one thing that stands out in these specs is OpenGL ES. It stands out because as of yet it's not a Microsoft supported API. It's considered a 3rd party solution. . |
well, OpenGL ES is included in iPhone OS but you are right that Microsoft uses Direct3D and DirectDraw and this menion of OpenGL ES may be proof that whole this specfiications are FAKE! |
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rassah
Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| EJR wrote: |
well, OpenGL ES is included in iPhone OS but you are right that Microsoft uses Direct3D and DirectDraw and this menion of OpenGL ES may be proof that whole this specfiications are FAKE! |
I think Windows Mobile 6.1 supports both, DirectX and OpenGL, and I'm pretty sure I read on Engadget that MS is in the works of dumping DirectX and going with OpenGL only for their phones. |
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j2inet
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rassah wrote: | | I think Windows Mobile 6.1 supports both, DirectX and OpenGL, and I'm pretty sure I read on Engadget that MS is in the works of dumping DirectX and going with OpenGL only for their phones. |
The rumor of Microsoft dropping DirectX is just that; a rumor. I think (but don't know) that it sprung up when Microsoft was deprecating GAPI, the API that preceeded DirectX. Many people thought that are the same thing and the rumor has never died. GAPI was deprecated as of Windows Mobile 5. That meant that developers were warned not to use it but OEMs still had to implement it on their Windows Mobile devices. As of Windows Mobile 6.5 OEMs no longer have to implement it. So an application targetting GAPI may not work on a 6.5 implementation of the OEM has decided not to implement it.
After continually hearing this rumor I decided to get a response from the Windows Mobile development team. I sent this question and got this response from Loke Uei confirming DirectX isn't being deprecated.
I'm guessing that in this context when you saw that "Windows Mobile 6.1 Supports OpenGL ES" you are sauing that it can be made to function on Windows Mobile 6.1. That's true to a limited extent. Given a random Windows Mobile 6.1 device it may or may not have a OpenGL ES implementation on it (depending on if an OEM decided to install one). If there isn't an implementation then I could download an open source software implementation (unaccelerated, slow) and as I am writing a game ensure that the game will first look for an OEM implementation before falling back on my software implementation.
On the other hand some implementation of DirectX is present on every Windows Mobile device. The OEM may decide to implement certain parts of it in hardware and provide a Hardware Abstraction Layer. For the parts theat they do not implement there is a software implementation provided by Microsoft through an Emulation Layer. There are some functions that will only be available if there is a hardware implementation present but the core of DirectX features will always be present through either the HEL or HAL. The developer can for the most part just write the application and allow the OS to properly direct calls to the HEL or HAL.
Check out this chart of Microsoft's API Groupings. You'll find that the function groupings that Microsoft provides for graphics on Windows Mobile include DirectShow (audio, video), DirectDraw (2D graphics), Direct3D (3D graphics), and GDI. OpenGL ES isn't among them.
I'd apply a healthy bit of skepticism to Windows Mobile news that can't be validated against a Microsoft information source. In the past coupld of months there have been Microsoft rumors that spread incredibly quickly about the Zune and something from a misconception that an accelerometer API being published by Microsoft among other things. I don't know that Microsoft will or Won't adopt OpenGL ES but I am doubtful given the stance the organization has taken on OpenGL in the desktop operating system for OpenGL. |
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kieranEire
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| The advantage of supporting Open GL is that applications from other platforms would be easier to port. Though people should also note that DirectDraw is not GPU accelerated on HTC devices. |
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j2inet
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 131
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| kieranEire wrote: | | Though people should also note that DirectDraw is not GPU accelerated on HTC devices. |
Unfortunately HTC hasn't historically been known to fully implement hardware acceleration for graphics in their devices.  On the last few HTC devices that I played with when I queried the DirectDraw capabilities I found that the only hardware implemented function was BitBlt with no support for any type of color key transparency. That's perfect if all of your sprites are rectangular. Not so good if you are trying to render something with any transparency.
And ofcourse it should come as no surprise that these devices had no exposed OpenGL ES implementation at all. |
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