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msmobiles.com_robot
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 16777215
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 Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:36 pm Post subject: GPS Tuner Atlas for Windows Mobile released and Google releases free turn-by-turn GPS navigation for Android only |
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Today Google has announced totally free turn-by-turn GPS navigation with 3D street view support even - but only for Android phones. All other companies making GPS navigation software are therefore screwed, including...
Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/8719.html |
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ESteel
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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The problem with Google's Turn by Turn program is that it requires an Internet connection. That is all fine and dandy when you are in a metropolitan area that has a good 3G connection, but if you get outside of the metros then Google Maps is a paperweight.
The benefit of Garmin and TomTom, and the others is that they can still function independently of an Internet connection. |
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EJR
Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 2629
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ESteel wrote: | | The problem with Google's Turn by Turn program is that it requires an Internet connection. . |
I think that they will soon add the feature of caching some areas to memory card and then the game is over for good
I know that some apps for iPhone can do such things: caching online maps while at WiFi and then using cached ones |
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ESteel
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| EJR wrote: | | ESteel wrote: | | The problem with Google's Turn by Turn program is that it requires an Internet connection. . |
I think that they will soon add the feature of caching some areas to memory card and then the game is over for good
I know that some apps for iPhone can do such things: caching online maps while at WiFi and then using cached ones |
I still don't think so. Having maps cached is a step forward, but there are still big problems with that solution. If you look at it globally, very little of the Earth is covered by wireless Internet. Even in the U.S. and Europe there are huge gaps in coverage.
I have been using GPS systems for a long time and I have tried the Telenav type network systems, the true standalone systems and software based systems. The fundamental flaw of the network based GPS like Google Maps is that they rely on that network connection. Even if you cache the map, the main processing of the directions is done over the network. It doesn't handle rerouting if you are off net.
The other problem with caching is how much to cache and how long does it take to download the cached files. What happens when you are outside of your cached maps? How responsive is it if you have a poor Internet connection? How well does it work if you have no connection and you need to re-route? How does it work on open water, in the desert, in the mountains, in the swamplands, or any areas that aren't well covered by cellular data towers?
Will there be a market for Google's product? Sure. Are Garmin and TomTom screwed? I don't think so. Until the entire Earth is covered by a reliable wireless Internet system then there is still going to be a market for full service standalone GPS systems that don't rely on a network connection. |
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netboy
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 349
Location: Bayarea, CA USA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:54 am Post subject: |
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yes, google will put all other gps software to sleep!
today (10/29/09), san francisco/oakland bridge is closed, google map (traffic) shows the bridge is closed. while att navigator (telenav gps) stills tell you to use the SF/oakland bridge to cross! (how can you cross when bridge is closed!). their so-call realtime traffic got updated like 6 hours later then tell you to use another bridge to cross. |
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amb9800
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| ESteel wrote: | The problem with Google's Turn by Turn program is that it requires an Internet connection. That is all fine and dandy when you are in a metropolitan area that has a good 3G connection, but if you get outside of the metros then Google Maps is a paperweight.
The benefit of Garmin and TomTom, and the others is that they can still function independently of an Internet connection. |
You don't need a 3G connection to load the basic map data- even GPRS will work just fine when needed. So the only issue comes about if you're in some place with absolutely no cell reception where the cached data is not enough to suit your needs, which pretty much never happens for the vast majority of users.
The advantages of Google's system, on the other hand -- the massive increase in the amount of data accessible and overall usefulness of the system -- are indeed relevant for most users of nav systems. |
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ESteel
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| amb9800 wrote: | You don't need a 3G connection to load the basic map data- even GPRS will work just fine when needed. So the only issue comes about if you're in some place with absolutely no cell reception where the cached data is not enough to suit your needs, which pretty much never happens for the vast majority of users.
The advantages of Google's system, on the other hand -- the massive increase in the amount of data accessible and overall usefulness of the system -- are indeed relevant for most users of nav systems. |
I don't know how much experience you have with having to rely on a GPS. But I can tell you from experience that the problem that you consider rare, happens all the time.
Try using Google maps at 70 MPH on an Edge connection and tell me how well it works. |
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amb9800
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 92
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ESteel wrote: | | Try using Google maps at 70 MPH on an Edge connection and tell me how well it works. |
I used a first-gen (EDGE-only) iPhone with Google Maps on several occasions while driving on long trips (and it didn't even have GPS-- triangulation worked well enough to track location quite accurately in most places where it mattered), so I'm quite familiar with it. Granted the performance on the iPhone's Google Maps apps is better than on WM's, but nonetheless. |
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j2inet
Joined: 06 May 2009
Posts: 132
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:19 pm Post subject: Needed Coverage may be lower than thought. |
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| ESteel wrote: |
I still don't think so. Having maps cached is a step forward, but there are still big problems with that solution. If you look at it globally, very little of the Earth is covered by wireless Internet. Even in the U.S. and Europe there are huge gaps in coverage. |
I think a better way to look at things is the wireless internet availability in the areas where most of the people are. When I was examining the Skyhook Wireless service (sevice which uses WiFi and cell tower location used by iPhone and other devices) at first their coverage looked rather lacking. Then I compared it to a population density map .
If you go here and scroll down you can see a coverage map and population density map for phoenix, AZ
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/WiMoWifiPosition.aspx
Their service covered a very low land mass of AZ, but a majority of the people around that area live within the coverage area.
The population density map gives an idea of where having service matters the most. I don't know if this matches the usage patterns of others but I most frequently use GPS for finding destinations that are fairly local, usually within 25 miles of where I live. If I travel for business I fly to a major city and then use GPS to find my way to my destination where is usually less than 20 miles from the airport (but also in an area with good coverage). On rare occasions I may use GPS to find my way to places a few hundred miles from where I live in which case I pass through areas of low coverage.
While GPS that requires a data connection wouldn't work for 100% of my usage scenarios it will work for a vast majority of them. If we were to review the data coverage area of the globe, population density with respect to that coverage area, and the typical usage patterns of people that use GPS I think we would find that the coverage necessary to satisfy most people is lower than one would think.
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ESteel
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| amb9800 wrote: | | I used a first-gen (EDGE-only) iPhone with Google Maps on several occasions while driving on long trips (and it didn't even have GPS-- triangulation worked well enough to track location quite accurately in most places where it mattered), so I'm quite familiar with it. Granted the performance on the iPhone's Google Maps apps is better than on WM's, but nonetheless. |
My experience with Google Maps is that it works great most of the time, but there are times when the data download can't keep up and the screen goes checkerboard. That can be a problem if you are approaching a turn. I have gone on long trips with GPS where you are frequently outside of cell coverage.
Try driving on the Florida Turnpike where there are large stretches of road without any cell coverage at all. I've tried it with Telenav. It doesn't work. I don't see where Google will be any better.
In those instances where you are outside of cell coverage, then a network based GPS is totally useless. It doesn't work at all.
I'm not saying that Google maps won't be useful to a lot of people, but I disagree with Edward's point that Google Maps will run Garmin out of business. I just don't see that happening unless you can Google maps even without a network connection. At which point you now have Garmin, TomTom, Navigon and all of the others. |
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joemboule
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| UK and Ireland map on TT or Garmin is approx. 110MB. I can download that in a blink of an eye if caching is eneabled. How many people do travel out of the country in a year?. I guess google sat nav will be great for most users. I also think it will be a wake up call for the likes of TT, Garmin and others who charge very much for their software and these are not often updated. It might also increase competition. Who can negate the benefits Apple Iphone has brought to phones users. |
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ESteel
Joined: 05 Sep 2007
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| joemboule wrote: | | UK and Ireland map on TT or Garmin is approx. 110MB. I can download that in a blink of an eye if caching is eneabled. How many people do travel out of the country in a year?. I guess google sat nav will be great for most users. I also think it will be a wake up call for the likes of TT, Garmin and others who charge very much for their software and these are not often updated. It might also increase competition. Who can negate the benefits Apple Iphone has brought to phones users. |
Everyone keeps talking about caching like its a sure thing feature in Google's product. Funny thing is, I can't find any mention of it in Google's announcement. Where did that come from? Oh yeah, here...
| EJR wrote: | | I think that they will soon add the feature of caching some areas to memory card and then the game is over for good |
Edward is only speculating that Google will eventually include caching, and yet everyone treats that as fact. |
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