msmobiles.com/f

[msmobiles.com_robot]

Last year, during 3GSM World Congress 2004 (in Cannes, France) we have obfuscated, due to his wish, a photo of a vice-president of Handango:



This year Handango, we are going to 3GSM World Congress too, but th...

Read more at http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3499.html

[Dumdidum]

It is simply an Insolence! Not only Handango is asking way too much % from the developer (Around 50%!!!!!) but now they want to force developers to sell their applications only at Handango...!

Unbelievable, that's why my applications will never be sold over at Handango!

Sven
_________________
www.ruttensoft.com - Smartphone development
www.pocketpc.ch - Swiss Smartphone and PocketPC-Community
www.mobilehelp.ch - Remote Support Solution

[The PocketTV Team]

> It is simply an Insolence! Not only Handango is asking way too much % from the developer (Around 50%!!!!!)

Right now they take a minimum of 40%, and they take even more if you application is a best seller. I.e. the more you sell, the larger percentage they take (quite the opposit of what you would expect)

> but now they want to force developers to sell their applications only at Handango...!

No, that's not exactly that, but close. They just don't want people to know that the application may be available from other source, once they have downloaded the trial version.

Some basically any trial version on the handango site should say: You must go to Handango to purchase the full version, or to purchase the key that activates the full version.

This means that trial versions must now be customized for Handango, because in general developers sell their applications with several vendors (not just Handango).

And as a side effect of this, Handango does not accept trial versions that use developer's activation keys (i.e. keys provided by the developer for activation, like we do with PocketTV). Because then, the trial application must have a link to the developer's web site in the registration or activation dialog, and this is not allowed by Handango!

Yes, I think that this is very insolent.

Luckyly there are alternative vendors that are much less insolent and that also take smaller shares, while doing excellent business with developers. For example PocketGear.com/Smartphone.net .

[nobody]

I found that Handango to be totally outrageous!!!

Not just that they demanded the highest percentage, the fact that they even request that all applications should link to Handango but not to the original developer is absolutely outrageous! Without the trial versions, it certainls hurts both sides. Even more ridiculous is that they say because they hosted trial version, that's why they need reference to their site ONLY as return?! Huhh?! This will certainly force any vendors who wants to have trial versions to have two different release versions, thus adds development effort and doubling QA effort.

Did I say totally outrageous?!

[PPCMD]

I don't like Handango and only buy software there because some of the other sites I have tried do not repsond to d/l issues. I would personally prefer to buy directly from the developer and/or have them work with smartphone and ppc based sites like MoDaCo, PocketPCThoughts, PDAPhoneHome etc this way they can deal directly with the user community and be paid for their hard work.

[thelostsoul]

Anyone here know of Lakeridge software's WisBar Advanced 2? On his site, he wanted 9.95 for it. If you went to handango, it was around 14.95...that's because of handango's ridiculous developer fees.

[clint@handango.com]

Hi all,

I'm Clint Patterson from Handango, and I'd like to provide some clarification on the many false statements in this post.

First, this policy is not new. It has been part of the Handango developer contract (available at developer.handango.com) for more than two years.

Second, this is an industry-wide practice. Our competitors (see https://www.smartphone.net/dev_apply.asp in the Software Distribution Agreement section B3 for an example) also require developers to list their sites as the purchase point in trial applications. I presume XXXXX does not mention this because of his past affiliate relationship with Motricity, the owners of PocketGear, PalmGear and Smartphone.net.

Third, the article falsely states that we require developers to modify their registration models. This is absolutely untrue. Developers can use any registration method they choose with Handango.

Fourth (and personally), I did not request that my photo be obfuscated. This is XXXXX's choice. I did ask, during a two hour interview at 3GSM last year (an interview that was never posted on this site), that XXXXX refrain from taking a picture of me alone. If you want to see what I look like, you can at corp.handango.com in the Press Room - Exec Bios section. Fair warning, I'm not a pretty man!. And, XXXXX, once again, you can unblur the image.

If you have any questions about the facts, please feel free to contact me personally.

Best regards,
Clint Patterson
Handango
clint@handango.com

[Mike Wagstaff]

Hi Clint,

Firstly, let me say that it's great to say that you're willing (and allowed) to post a response here.

How would you say that Handango's commission rates compare to PocketGear / Clickgamer? As a non-developer, I'm under the impression that your rates are higher. Is that the case and, if so, why?

[EJR]

[The PocketTV Team]

> I'm Clint Patterson from Handango, and I'd like to provide some clarification on the many false statements in this post.

Hi Clint, thanks for making some clarifications. I don't believe there was any false statement, and I will explain why.

> First, this policy is not new. It has been part of the Handango developer contract (available at developer.handango.com) for more than two years.

I know, and we have always respected this policy. In fact it is totally in OUR interest to have more sales on Handango. We know that a good rating on Handango's catalog brings significant sales, so we definitely want people who get their trial version from Handango to go back to Handango and purchase our products there.

If you go to our page http://www.pockettv.com/purchase , you can see that we say:

<< If you downloaded PocketTV from one of these sites [list of vendors below], please return to the same site to purchase it. >> [the "please return to the same site to purchase it" is in bold!]

What is new is to strict enforcement of the rule, and in our case, this rule is not compatible with having a Trail version on Handango. I will explain.

> Second, this is an industry-wide practice. Our competitors (see https://www.smartphone.net/dev_apply.asp in the Software Distribution Agreement section B3 for an example) also require developers to list their sites as the purchase point in trial applications.

But unlike Handango, they don't make it illegal to provide a link to the developer's site, as long as the developer's site instruct the customer to purchase the product on their site.

> I presume XXXXX does not mention this because of his past affiliate relationship with Motricity, the owners of PocketGear, PalmGear and Smartphone.net.

We are not XXXXX, and our relation with Motricity is excellent, but we agree with the issues described in this article.

> Third, the article falsely states that we require developers to modify their registration models.

Our contact at Handango told us that the registration model of our trial version, which requires going to our website to obtain the activation key (after purchase) was not in line with Handango's requirements. So they asked us to either remove our trial version or change our registration model.

Since we do not want to change our registration model (which is more secured than the models where handango provides the software key), and our registration model requires that the user go on OUR website and fill-up a form to get their key, we were asked to REMOVE our trial version from the Handango site.

I totally fail to see this going in the way of a better business for Handango, since not having a trial version on the Handango site will reduce Handango sales. Even more, if you consider that our trial version is available from other vendors! People who want to get the trial version will go to another vendor, and probably not go back to Handango for purchase.

So based on all this, I don't think the earlier statements made by XXXXX are false. Handango is still asking us to either change our registration model or remove our trial version. We have been given next Friday's deadline to comply.

> This is absolutely untrue. Developers can use any registration method they choose with Handango.

Ok, then I see some contradiction there, so maybe you can clarify.

Our registration / activation dialog asks the customer to enter a key, and instruct the cusomer to go to our website to fill-up a form (on our site) to obtain their key. They can only receive the activation key directly from us, after they purchased the software and have their Order Number.

In the form (on our site, see http://www.pockettv.com/cgi-bin/pockettv-getkey.cgi?purchase=1 ), the customer must enter their Order Number or TransactionID, which is obtained once they have purchased the product. We instruct them to purchase the product from the site where they have downloaded the product. See "If you have not yet purchased the software, please click here. ".

One thing we could do is, before the user sees our registration / activation dialog in the trial version, is to show a dialog that says: <<To purchase the product, please go to Handango.com/etc... [Handango product URL] and THEN, once the product has been purchased, please tap OK and enter the activation key in the next screen.>>

But according to the Handango agreement, it would STILL be illegal to provide (in the dialog where the key must be entered) the link to the form that must be filled (on our website) to receive that key. And if we do not provide this link, it will be VERY confusing for the customer and we can expect more customer support calls ("where the hell do i get this key???"). Again, that's not good for Handango, is it ?

So if you can, please tell us what to do. Our Handango contact, Emily, was of no help at all.

Would it be sufficient to do what I describe above (i.e. a screen before our registration dialog, instructing the user to go to Handango to purchase the product) ?

This would naturally require that we make a special version for Handango, but at least would it allow us to keep our trial version on Handango's site ?

> If you have any questions about the facts, please feel free to contact me personally.

I would prefer an open discussion, since many developers can be interested by the subject.

Thanks.

[farnold]

Clint, I value that you take the time to respond here and I understand and accept your commercial interest in making as much money as possible for your organisation. Mate, that's a respectful. But please don't explain why your policies are in either a developer's or a customer's best interest - they are only in HANDANGO's best interest.

A share of 40+% on top of the money that goes to the developer is unheard of in the retail industry before... mot even at shops that have to hire expensive locations. I would be keen to understand how HANDANGO is justifying this. What does HANDANGO provide for this? Their strong market position and nothing but.

In my opinion you guys at HANDANGO are abusing your market dominance. You should spend some time and check with Microsoft where that leads to. The standard answer like "If you don't like our policy, than sell your products somewhere else" is not valid anymore for a company with HANDANGO's market share.
_________________
Cheers
Frank

[joozy]

This insight into how Handango conduct its business is interesting. I have been trying to contact them using their "web support form" of which they say will be replied within 3 business days. After 3 submissions, I am yet to hear from them. Am I supposed to be surprised?

With all the money they are making off developers, you would think they would actually have someone working on their customer support but I firmly believe they are a ghost company. By the way, I have paid for the software but they have not been able to deliver it (its an OTA delivery). So I had no choice but to contact the developers and they are trying to help in delivering the software to me.

One would think that Handango should be doing the work to at least deliver the software since they took the money, but no, it's up to the developers too. So, one wonders what value does Handango bring to the table except to sponge off others. I am all for another company to offer software for sale if Handango continues to offer not just bad service to the developers, but to customers as well. How arrogant!

[clint@handango.com]

Hi again,

I'll try to address a number of these comments and questions.

1) Support. If you're having trouble reaching someone, please email me personally at clint@handango.com. We were out yesterday in observance of Martin Luther King Day, so if you submitted an issue on Friday, three business days would be Wednesday for a response. We do have a team of more than 10 folks answering customer questions every day (they sit right across from me!).

2) Our rates. We pay developers 60% of gross revenues for sales on Handango-branded sites (.com, .co.uk, .de, .com/fr, etc). We pay 60% to 50% of gross revenues on partner-branded sites (e.g. Microsoft, Dell, HP, AOL, AvantGo, etc) depending on sales volume ($50,000 is the threshold). We pay 70% of NET revenues on wireless sites (e.g. Sprint, T-Mobile, Orange, Cingular, etc).

3) Competitor rates. (I'm not the authority here.) PocketGear pays developers 70% to 60% - depending on your level with them - of NET revenues for sales on PocketGear branded sites. For sales on their partner sites (for example, the affiliate links from msmobiles.com), sales are paid at a rate of 60%, I believe. Other competitors offer different rates some are higher (Jamba in Germany pays 50% of net revenues) and some are lower (a new site just lauched that pays 75% or thereabouts). Physical retailers will generally take 50% of revenues in addition to marketing and inventory management fees.

4) Rate comparison. Because some competitors pay based on NET revenues in all cases, the comparison is difficult unless you know exactly what fees will be deducted. In general (depending on how much you sell and where), Handango commands a premium over online competitors. We also deliver many more visitors and sales. This seems in line with other industries. For example, you pay more to advertise in the New York Times than the Des Moines Register (Sorry for the American examples! I'm not too good on the names of newspapers in rural Germany!).

5) What we do for developers. We provide a wide variety of services. We build and maintain more than 100 sales channels (the ones mentioned above - Microsoft, Orange, Dell, HP, etc) for developers, bringing the largest group of customers in the world to see their applications. We provide support for customers. Most developers never see the issues we handle on their behalf, but it equates to roughly 10 issues for every 1 they see referred from us. We cover all fraud expenses. If a developer's application is purchased fraudulently, Handango eats the cost and does not debit the developer's payment for this amount. This was a six-figure expense last year. We provide a host of marketing opportunities (in-box CDs/MMC cards, promotions, portal inclusion, etc) to developers on a regular basis. We provide free testing services for inclusion in operator portals. This is only a partial list of some of the more important and unknown items. If you'd like a more exhaustive list, I'm happy to provide one if you email me.

6) Market share. Anyone who has researched this industry knows that there are literally thousands of sources to purchase mobile software. There are more than 10 different online competitors to Handango, hundreds or more developer sites, dozens of operator and device manufacturer portals, hundreds or thousands of physical retail stores. New sources emerge every month. Handango may be the largest, best and best known, but that does not mean that we stand alone in this vibrant marketplace.

Thanks for the comments and questions. Please let me know if I can provide further clarification.

Best regards,
Clint Patterson
Handango
clint@handango.com

[kitayarra]

[The PocketTV Team]

Are you certain that Handango does not still pay you 60% on the first $50K ?

That would be logical. I would hope they do that!